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Lorraine Potter's avatar

This is chilling. And our courts don’t seem to be interested in stopping trump.

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Terence J. Ollerhead's avatar

Not only the courts. Anyone in America. This is so beyond anyone's line in the sand.

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Monica's avatar

The government is trafficking humans in the open and basically the response is a shoulder shrug. So depressing.

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Alice Landrum's avatar

Who will enforce the rulings by the courts? Is this a flaw in the American constitution ?

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David Skoglund's avatar

The military takes an oath to protect the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic.

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Phil Balla's avatar

You've answered Alice's question well, David.

But please add the schools to the list of those whom we should reap the trust of our investments.

The schools folded, turned over, first to the far-right foundations hounding them following the 1971 Powell memo, then to the billionaires' standardized testing instruments locking down only the values of abstracting, categorizing, and simpleton-causal linearity. As best to serve the commercial, packaging, and easily-numbered interests of the billionaires.

Second, the advertising profits of further billionaires cashing in on Fox "News," Clear Channel radio, and other corporate behemoths.

Third, the algorithms of yet other billionaires profiting from social media vulgarities.

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littlebird787's avatar

Absolutely that is NOT a good answer to the question. In fact, it is calling for an illegal military coup. I repeat: the military has NOTHING to do with the courts. NOTHING. One more time: the military has NOTHING to do with the courts. The US Marshals Service (NOT THE MILITARY) enforces orders from federal courts but they are not doing it because AG bondi has ordered them not to because trump has ordered her not to. That’s what happens in one party rule — there is no one to say ‘no’.

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Thomas Schumacher's avatar

US Marshalls are basically powerless in the face of the exec branch. Good luck.

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littlebird787's avatar

US Marshal Service is IN the executive branch (DoJ), and one part of the branch cannot move against another part, ie the executive/president who is the head of both. The problem is that they cannot/will not do their job to enforce federal court orders like arresting AG bondi or trump for illegal actions/contempt because bondi is their boss and trump is her boss. Their orders are likely ‘do not enforce'. I was clearly not saying they would do something, but that they were the ones with the Constitutional power to do something. And BTW, both the marshals (DoJ) and the military (DoD) are in the executive branch so any movement by the DoD against or for the judicial branch would likely be a coup. This is what happens in one-party rule — there is no one to say no. We are in deep doo doo.

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James Quinn's avatar

Time you let go of this obsession with the Powell memo.

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David Skoglund's avatar

The Powell memo was, and still is, an abomination.

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Phil Balla's avatar

And its consequent far-right foundations still organized potent.

And all the standardized testing to which the crippling of all K-12 left vulnerable, helpless, captive.

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littlebird787's avatar

The military has entirely nothing to do with enforcing federal court orders and indeed is absolutely required to keep its nose out of the judiciary. If it moved in that direction it would be a military coup.

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Chris Martin's avatar

This is an extremely simplistic answer to this question.

You have either overlooked or are unaware of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, not to mention Article II Section 2 of the Constitution. The US military is *not* a solution to the Trump administration's defiance of court orders or any other crimes.

First of all, Article II Section 2 states "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual service of the United States." Unless Trump issues an illegal order, US military personnel *cannot* legally defy the President, much less remove him from power or enforce a SCOTUS decision that goes against the President. The judicial branch is *not* in the military chain of command at all. Congress's role is limited to declaring war and funding. (Note: I'm *not* saying I agree with Trump in any way.)

Second, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 even limits the Commander in Chief's (President's) use of the US Army and Air Force(and National Guard when they're federalized) in domestic law enforcement. Subsequent legislation extended the Act to cover the Navy and Marine Corps. The text of the law, and the Constiution, don't provide any legal role for the US military in a case like Trump's lawlessness.

https://www.rbhayes.org/scholarlyworks/the-posse-comitatus-act-and-using-military-as-a-police-force/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/posse-comitatus-act-explained

Unfortunately, the most well known exception to the Act could actually help Trump. It's a series of laws enacted between 1792-1871 that have come to be known as the Insurrection Act. In addition to the exemptions included in that law, some Department of Defense lawyers have argued the law includes exceptions that allow them to protect federal property, and to "quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances" when "necessary" and they're unable to obtain prior authorization from the President. Those claims have never been litigated.

If a part of the US military attempted to enforce a SCOTUS decision against the President (regardless if it's Trump or somebody else), it would be a complete disaster for the United States. Even if such an action didn't provoke an armed response and therefore the potential beginning of a second Civil War, it would *seriously* harm the military's ability to defend the US and American interests from an external threat. Putin, Kim Jong Un, Ayatollah Ali Khameni and the leader of every terrorist group in the world would be extremely pleased.

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David Skoglund's avatar

I’m totally aware of the Posse Comitatis Act. All I did was state the military takes an oath to protect the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic.

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Chris Martin's avatar

That is absolutely meaningless in this case.

You either overlooked, or delibrately, *didn't* post the later part of that oath, which states "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

The US military has no role in this, and you know it.

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David Skoglund's avatar

Don’t tell me what you think I know. You are full of yourself.

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littlebird787's avatar

Excellent reply but falling on deaf ears, I’m afraid. Best not to encourage the Dunning–Kruger kids.

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Lorraine Potter's avatar

But I think the president controls the military. Hope that I am wrong and that it is more independent.

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Encode's avatar

In a contest between the Supreme Court and the President, the military is supposed to defend the Constitution. Which means the military is sworn to support the Supreme Court.

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littlebird787's avatar

Yikes! No wonder the country is in trouble. Please read the Constitution.

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/

Supreme court justices, the president and VP, the entire Congress, and all the agency employees take much the same oath. But clearly a whole lot of them lied. American military is intentionally under the control of civilians, ei, the Department of Defense which is run by the secretary of defense. Unfortunately right now that means it is run by an alcoholic rapist with a penchant for financial fraud, so we might anticipate illegal orders to 'protect the fascist justices and trump et al.’, whatever that means. Also the military has NOTHING to do with the supreme court. NOTHING. Any support for the justices could lead to a military coup, especially as the court is deeply split as to levels of integrity, honesty, and knowledge about the law. Turns out, the 5 male justices are greedy, ignorant, fraudulent liars.

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CLS's avatar

So, it sounds like there is no one left to protect the Constitution.

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littlebird787's avatar

You are correct. The only people left to protect the Constitution are… the people. Neither the courts nor the military are coming to save us. We have to do this ourselves.

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Joanna Weinberger's avatar

Alice Landrum, the western US territories had justice before there were towns of any size. A judge could deputize any citizen to do the work of the court and a sheriff could deputize a posse. Americans got by. And those laws still apply.

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Stephen Schiff's avatar

HANDS OFF! Saturday, April 19th. Give voice to our rage.

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Sandy Sorlien's avatar

too late, but I'll be there. Write all your officials and scream, today. Get your R friends, or those in R districts, to do the same

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Ronald Fel Jones's avatar

Meanwhile, the Dow is up 300 points today. We're living in a sea of denial and delusion. This week seems pivotal as to whether we can stop Trump.

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Laura's avatar

We will see what happens tomorrow. But it is always anti-climatic it seems.

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Hank Greenspan's avatar

Bottom line: We are at war. No one is immune. It will take enormous courage, creativity, and perseverance. And, if enough of us, non-violence.

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Kathleen Murphy's avatar

Donald Trump is not a "strategic genius." Oh my heavens.

He suffers from Pathological narcissism. These people will lie, manipulate, cheat, betray and hurt those closest to them. Extreme vindictiveness is a hallmark of this exploitive and entitlement style. He is leaning towards psychopathy now, a pattern of remorseless lies and manipulation. We are pawns in his game of retribution, no empathy, no compassion no judgment. He is functionally impaired with his psychiatric burden and we should get the needed nonpartisan specialists, to evaluate him and make an assessment as he is poised to bring us to the precipice of disaster in multiple arenas. I am so surprised people do not see how impaired he is. He also needs a cognitive test; erratic, unfocused, inattentive, distorted thinking are hallmarks of early decline. Frame him as a diagnostic entity. Get him the treatment he so richly deserves.... Kathleen

Murphy MD

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Terence J. Ollerhead's avatar

Trump isn't alone in this, you know. Did you hear the cackle of laughter in the Oval Office today? You're almost all complicit. The only positive outcome is that one day they'll rot in jail, but it's America; they'll get talk shows.

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Marilyn W's avatar

The narcissistic smirks and sociopathic laughing should evoke outrage!

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adevrx's avatar

They are nasty, small, vengeful and very immature people riding what they think is an invincible high.

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Terence J. Ollerhead's avatar

I have been involved in the study of the international system for decades, and today was the day that I actually gave up all hope that the United States can be saved; that it is now on an irrevocable slide into anarchy.

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Susan Cortilet Jones (link ⬇️)'s avatar

Dr. Murphy. I was gifted On Tyranny shortly after it was published. TS’s book framed actions I/we needed to take in 2017, and I’m sure for his students long before I knew who he was. Not long after that, I discovered Dr. Bandy Lee and the psychiatric scholars who were raising the alarm from their years of study as social psychiatrists. Nicolle Wallace of MSNBC has Tim Snyder on frequently. And he and Dr. Lee are colleagues. Unfortunately, the media caved then to the threat her message posed to Trump. In my mind, Dr. Lee and her colleagues were the biggest threat to Trump in 2017 and were blacklisted by Alan Dershowitz (Trump lawyer) and Jeffrey Lieberman, disgraced former head of the APA (trade association). Please consider following Dr. Lee. As predicted the escalation today is not surprising but needs to be understood. Nicolle Wallace has talked for years about our ‘Failure to Imagine’ (my moniker on BlueSky).

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Kathleen Murphy's avatar

Yes, on tyranny has been my 20 point bible too for years

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Kathleen Murphy's avatar

And nothing surprises me after 40 years of practice but failure to act now and get vocal, insistent and demanding is derelict of duty

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Susan Cortilet Jones (link ⬇️)'s avatar

I’ve agree with you. As a licensed therapist, I absolutely believe that the emergency is the anxiety and fear that so many are feeling. This trauma has been inflicted on society for a decade now. A predator speaks to us everyday and calls himself President. He tells us we are losers and don’t love him. Therefore he decrees that the world will suffer and people will die and that it’s our fault. He cares less about his followers but nevertheless he knows they will support him. Dr. Lee has a Substack following that has many mental health experts but also people from other professional backgrounds who recognize the emergency. Her supporters are men & women from all over the world.

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Patricia Wood's avatar

Dr. Murphy: I agree with your description of DJT's pathological narcissism. Though he needs treatment, we, as a country, need him gone from power NOW. Because his cabinet won't use the 25th Amendment to remove him, and treatment doesn't "cure" malignant narcissists, I fear we are now in the dark world of a sadistic dictator and that, as a country, our goals should be to 1) prevent martial law from being imposed and to 2) keep the next 2 election cycles alive and free from his corruption.

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Cate T's avatar

You are absolutely right.

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Kathleen Murphy's avatar

Yes 3 times

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Cate T's avatar

Are you referring to “The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump”? It came out in his first term and raises the alarm “duty to warn.”

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Carmen Louise's avatar

There have since been about three more editions published with more mental health professionals writing essays. Check out bandylee.com for more info

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Susan Cortilet Jones (link ⬇️)'s avatar

Dr. Murphy. I was gifted On Tyranny shortly after it was published. TS’s book framed actions I/we needed to take in 2017, and I’m sure for his students long before I knew who he was. Not long after that, I discovered Dr. Bandy Lee and the psychiatric scholars who were raising the alarm from their years of study as social psychiatrists. Nicolle Wallace of MSNBC has Tim Snyder on frequently. And he and Dr. Lee are colleagues. Unfortunately, the media caved then to the threat her message posed to Trump. In my mind, Dr. Lee and her colleagues were the biggest threat to Trump in 2017 and were blacklisted by Alan Dershowitz (Trump lawyer) and Jeffrey Lieberman, disgraced former head of the APA (trade association). Please consider following Dr. Lee. As predicted the escalation today is not surprising but needs to be understood. Nicolle Wallace has talked for years about our ‘Failure to Imagine’ (my moniker on BlueSky).

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adevrx's avatar

Having watched Steven Miller blatantly lie about SCOTUS' 9-0 ruling against trump and for bringing Garcia back, it's apparent to me that he is even more evil than trump - and he looks the part. At least trump looks and sounds like he could be friendly and maybe laugh once. It seems that Miller's job, other than being the handmaid for trump'd Eos, is make sure that trump doesn't stray from the evil path, the 2025 agenda, the Heritage Foundation plan to make the USA the color of 1950s white by whatever means it takes, legal or not.

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adevrx's avatar

I'm guessing that they see it and are using him for their own gain but gosh knows what that is other than venting anger and getting the libs.

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Carmen Louise's avatar

"using him for their own gain" ???? Dr. Lee has endured a lot to warn us about Trump and others like him. Not sure why you would say that.

"gosh knows what that is other than venting anger and getting the libs" another perplexing comment

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Philip Shane's avatar

Crimes against humanity.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

This is horrible & we must protest this now. I hate the fact that he’s already sent migrants there illegally & refuses to return them!!

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Kathleen Murphy's avatar

I am aghast, bereft and breathless. He is mentally ill and nobody coming forth

Kathleen Murphy MD

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A doc reads's avatar

I am with you.

Frightened.

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Leilani Jennings's avatar

Thank you, Tim. I wish I could take myself and my entire family out of this very dangerous country.

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Joanne Intrator's avatar

I fear this is going over too many people's heads. Of course, it needs to be said and somehow acted upon, but Trump's chaos/distraction technique, the flooding of information that changes daily, has dulled people through overload. I say this as a psychiatrist and as a 2nd gen.

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It's Come to This's avatar

People -- our dumb media, mostly -- keep reassuring themselves with silly pablum, like 'oh the courts will stop him' and 'Republicans will start protesting' or 'nobody could possibly be that childishly moronic and irresponsible at the same time' or my favorite -- 'Congress would impeach him before that happens.'

I put no faith in our cowardly, gutless, complicit, Republican-controlled Congress or the ability of courts to enforce their judgments even if they reach them. It simply never occurred to our founders or our institutions for over 250 years that a 3-year-old criminal would come along and decide to piss all over the Constitution without other people stopping him first.

Yet here we are. This is bad, people. This is really bad.

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Monet Lion's avatar

Yes, it is really really bad. Our country has been in deep distress for a month plus. How much deeper before our flag/constitution and liberty are literally trampled upon? A photo-op the wannabe king would relish, no doubt.

(In my nightmares I wonder what his conquering flag will look like?)

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Doug Shortridge's avatar

IMO the distress goes back decades, but I started to be very concerned 9 years ago in early summer 2016.

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Sandy Sorlien's avatar

Interesting. My extreme Tr*mpist neighbor took his American flag down a month ago. I fear what will go up in its place

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Monet Lion's avatar

Hmm, interesting; it’s occurred to me Trump might want to replace our stars & stripes to fit his ego. 🐀

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Encode's avatar

This is the worst day of my entire civic life.

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Doug Shortridge's avatar

It occurred to many of the drafters I'm sure. Human nature has changed exactly not-at-all since then. But everyone understands no constitution is, or can be, made perfect. So now we are going to find out if it will finally hold up or not. SCOTUS has the final say and that may only present itself over a series of rulings. But we will eventually find out the answer.

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It's Come to This's avatar

It did not occur to our drafters that the institutions they empowered to stop tyranny would not then use those powers when the time arose. They did not foresee the rise of political parties. They did not see THIS political party, which demands castration as a price of membership. But more to the point, this Supreme Court can see exactly where this is going, even if they think they haven't given Trump a blank check. But they have no power to enforce their decisions even if they reach those decisions, and Trump knows it. What bailiff is going to march into the Department of Justice and arrest the Attorney General after the Court holds her in contempt?

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Doug Shortridge's avatar

I'm sure in general they understood that some tyranny was the threat. Did they foresee every possible detail of how such a thing could occur? Of course they didn't. That's because it's not possible to draft a perfect constitution. I'm not here to argue about it though. My conclusion is the rule of law will either hold or it won't and we are going to be finding out about that question.

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Kathleen Murphy's avatar

His cognitive exam by naval physician was a sham.

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Rachel Eryn Kalish's avatar

Can you say more about that? Because honestly, I was shocked when I read about it.

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Rusalka's avatar

If his doctor said anything he didn’t want to hear he’ll be on the next plane to El Salvador. 🇸🇻

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JJ's avatar

What is our recourse if the White House is publicly choosing to ignore the highest court? I have until June 2026, when my youngest finishes high school, and then I suspect my family will be leaving this country. We are fortunate to have that option.

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Bill Mathews's avatar

Now you have the freedom and the means to leave. Will you in June 2026? By then we could be in a depression. Our relations with the country or countries you could now relocate to could be so broken that going there was no longer possible. Or Trump himself could do what other dictators have done: Close the borders.

Flee while you can.

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JJ's avatar
Apr 15Edited

I am a Dutch citizen, they can’t deny me entry. And we have savings set aside for this. If they close the borders, you are right, that would be a whole new ballgame. I pray we don’t get to that point!

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Nazrat414's avatar

An authoritarianism stain we can only hope can be undone. I am willing to stand in the way, in whatever peaceful way helps.

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A doc reads's avatar

Nazrat 414,

I am with you.

We can lock arms to protect our children.

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Nazrat414's avatar

Likewise, I will stand with you.

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Karola Spring's avatar

I too stand with you. Non-violence all the way.

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Laura's avatar

I fear it will not remain nonviolent for long

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Karola Spring's avatar

I fear that as well.

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longtimebirdwatcher's avatar

You are a member of the Navalny Club.

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Nazrat414's avatar

I hope that is a good thing.

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longtimebirdwatcher's avatar

Do you know anything about him?

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Nazrat414's avatar

Indeed. Stood for the right things I believe, and unfortunately died for them.

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Friedrike Merck's avatar

I'm as home grown as you can get and I'm not backing down, not flinching, not giving in to this soft voiced man with the monstrous heart or to the laughing hyenas.

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Jim Dollar's avatar

The wild dogs are loose upon the world and there is no calling them back into the pens of civilization. Vicious, bloodthirsty madness is unleashed without restraint or moral standards. Hatred, fear and greed are in complete control, and no place is off limits to their malevolent intent.

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Robot Bender's avatar

The dogs of war. Pink Floyd

Read the lyrics

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Jim Dollar's avatar

Amazingly prophetic, no?

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Judith Hurley's avatar

Planning to send Americans to a foreign prison is entirely and fully a repudiation of an oath to uphold the Constitution of the USA

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longtimebirdwatcher's avatar

Send in the Marines!

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A doc reads's avatar

I am officially afraid.

Sending a message to Senator Warren. Post haste!

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