One thing I have always wondered is, how is it that Russians have been the victims of the worst governments possible, going back to the beginning? Even the "good ones" like Alexander Nevsky and Peter the Great were monsters! And they were the exceptions.
Historians attribute many millions of deaths in the Soviet Union to Stalin alone, including nearly 800,000 executions. I'm sure Professor Snyder has insight into the issue you raise. Would be fascinating to learn more.
"You can't really engage in historical argument with people who are set on believing a myth, let alone with presidents who believe that the past is just there to confirm their present prejudices." True for Russia and true for this country as well. Mr. Trump is biding his time and hoping that there are enough Americans who are set in believing myths of the past.
Very enlightening. It's difficult not to conclude that Putin has misread the likely reaction and fallout from an invasion — domestically and internationally — when the casualties and destruction mount. Perhaps he's starting to believe the web of false realities he creates, not to mention overestimating his shrewdness.
I would expect from the author, who is a famous and admired (by me for sure) historian, more and deeper analysis of the Ukraine history over the ages. What it is, where it belongs and where it came from. I grew in Poland and I still remember the songs we sang about the lost green Ukraine. Ukraine, like Poland, fought for its own identity over the ages. Somehow I do not see it referenced in this article. Neither do I see analysis of the possible results, the invasion of Ukraine by Putin would bring with.
I would love to learn about the songs you sang about green Ukraine. When I was in graduate school in historical musicology, I was required to take one course in ethnomusicology. I waited until the last minute because I was such a snob about Western European art music. When I looked in the course catalogue and found "Music and Politics in Eastern Europe," I thought, "Well, OK, at least it's European music, even if it's *Eastern* European music. Turned out to have been the best course I had ever taken. It changed my life. I really can't explain it to you. It was as if I had walked into a room with no walls and no ceiling. I was so discombobulated by it that I didn't know what to do with myself. Anyway, could you provide me with some of the names of the songs, perhaps text incipits, and how I could listen to them? I looked on youtube, but couldn't find anything. Perhaps I'm using the wrong keywords.
Rose, the song that I referred to is named in Polish "Na Zielonej Ukrainie" As I did not remember all the lyrics, I found it on YouTube, the link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IvLEbxu8ZE.
The lyrics are in Polish, you can find the lyrics and use Google translate if you don't understand Polish which in this case is a little archaic
Thanks, J. I just read it. I hooked my Bose speakers up to my laptop and listened to the youtube video Rysiu sent. I was able to get the music down after a single listening, and I found the text of the song. Now I can't get the refrain out of my mind: Hej, hej, hej sokoły/Omijajcie góry, lasy, doły/Dzwoń, dzwoń, dzwoń dzwoneczku/Mój stepowy skowroneczku.
The eastern influence is very strong in this piece--lots of minor thirds and raised 7ths. I see that Tymko Padura played the torban, which looks a bit like a theorbo (bass lute), also a plucked and strummed instrument, which was used as a continuo instrument, especially during the early Baroque. In Baroque music the continuo--a theorbo or harpsichord--filled in the harmonies of the composition.
Oh my goodness, thank you so much! This is wonderful. Gail Kligman's _The Wedding of the Dead: Ritual, Poetics, and Popular Culure in Transylvania_ (Berkeley: U. of CA Press, 1988) was required reading in that course on Eastern Europe I took. It contains five appendices with transcriptions of ritual poetry in side-by-side Romanian and English: A: Din Viaţa Satului/From the Life of the Village; B: Satul Meu/My Village; C: Verşi /The Deceased Farewell and Prayer for Forgiveness; D: Death-Wedding Laments; and E: Vrem Pace/We Want Peace. Professor Kligman had lived in Maramureş (right on Romania's border with Ukraine) among the native peoples on and off during her research. I fell in love with these verşi, as well as transcriptions of epic poetry from Alfred B. Lord's _The Singer of Tales_; "The Song of Baghdad" continues to be an especial favorite of mine.
I will follow up on your references when I have time; thank you for sharing them! In the publication I linked to, the introductory historical material is most interesting. Florence Randal Livesay was writing from Winnipeg, where such a huge part of the Ruthenian diaspora was/is located. These people from Austrian Galicia and Bukovina (much of which is in present-day Romania) had never been subject to imperial Russian rule.
Yes, Bukovina is sandwiched between the northernmost part of Romania and the southernmost part of Galicia, pre-1918. I would imagine that life in Austrian Galicia would have been very different from life in Imperial Russia. I'm glad you brought Bukovina up, because its southwestern border is next door to Maramureş in Transylvania. I noticed the introductory historical material as I was looking though the introduction. I'm saving that for tomorrow morning. Thanks again.
Very enlightening. It's difficult not to think that Putin has misread the likely reaction and fallout from an invasion — domestically and internationally — when the casualties and destruction mount. Perhaps he's starting to believe in the false realties he's adept at creating.
One thing I have always wondered is, how is it that Russians have been the victims of the worst governments possible, going back to the beginning? Even the "good ones" like Alexander Nevsky and Peter the Great were monsters! And they were the exceptions.
Historians attribute many millions of deaths in the Soviet Union to Stalin alone, including nearly 800,000 executions. I'm sure Professor Snyder has insight into the issue you raise. Would be fascinating to learn more.
"You can't really engage in historical argument with people who are set on believing a myth, let alone with presidents who believe that the past is just there to confirm their present prejudices." True for Russia and true for this country as well. Mr. Trump is biding his time and hoping that there are enough Americans who are set in believing myths of the past.
What an excellent analysis and how sad that we should be here again, namely, on the brink of war... As if Ukraine has not suffered enough.
Very enlightening. It's difficult not to conclude that Putin has misread the likely reaction and fallout from an invasion — domestically and internationally — when the casualties and destruction mount. Perhaps he's starting to believe the web of false realities he creates, not to mention overestimating his shrewdness.
I would expect from the author, who is a famous and admired (by me for sure) historian, more and deeper analysis of the Ukraine history over the ages. What it is, where it belongs and where it came from. I grew in Poland and I still remember the songs we sang about the lost green Ukraine. Ukraine, like Poland, fought for its own identity over the ages. Somehow I do not see it referenced in this article. Neither do I see analysis of the possible results, the invasion of Ukraine by Putin would bring with.
I would love to learn about the songs you sang about green Ukraine. When I was in graduate school in historical musicology, I was required to take one course in ethnomusicology. I waited until the last minute because I was such a snob about Western European art music. When I looked in the course catalogue and found "Music and Politics in Eastern Europe," I thought, "Well, OK, at least it's European music, even if it's *Eastern* European music. Turned out to have been the best course I had ever taken. It changed my life. I really can't explain it to you. It was as if I had walked into a room with no walls and no ceiling. I was so discombobulated by it that I didn't know what to do with myself. Anyway, could you provide me with some of the names of the songs, perhaps text incipits, and how I could listen to them? I looked on youtube, but couldn't find anything. Perhaps I'm using the wrong keywords.
Rose, the song that I referred to is named in Polish "Na Zielonej Ukrainie" As I did not remember all the lyrics, I found it on YouTube, the link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IvLEbxu8ZE.
The lyrics are in Polish, you can find the lyrics and use Google translate if you don't understand Polish which in this case is a little archaic
Interesting! Here is a biography of that song’s composer. So much to learn! http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CP%5CA%5CPaduraTymko.htm
Some browsers persistently mark encyclopediaofukraine.com as a "dangerous webpage" and block it. From my iPhone I can access it without difficulty.
I was able to access it from my laptop without a warning, using Firefox.
Thanks, J. I just read it. I hooked my Bose speakers up to my laptop and listened to the youtube video Rysiu sent. I was able to get the music down after a single listening, and I found the text of the song. Now I can't get the refrain out of my mind: Hej, hej, hej sokoły/Omijajcie góry, lasy, doły/Dzwoń, dzwoń, dzwoń dzwoneczku/Mój stepowy skowroneczku.
The eastern influence is very strong in this piece--lots of minor thirds and raised 7ths. I see that Tymko Padura played the torban, which looks a bit like a theorbo (bass lute), also a plucked and strummed instrument, which was used as a continuo instrument, especially during the early Baroque. In Baroque music the continuo--a theorbo or harpsichord--filled in the harmonies of the composition.
I don't speak Polish but my friend Jadwiga, who is from Poznań, does. We speak to each other regularly. Thanks, Rysiu.
https://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/livesay/ukraina/ukraina.html
Oh my goodness, thank you so much! This is wonderful. Gail Kligman's _The Wedding of the Dead: Ritual, Poetics, and Popular Culure in Transylvania_ (Berkeley: U. of CA Press, 1988) was required reading in that course on Eastern Europe I took. It contains five appendices with transcriptions of ritual poetry in side-by-side Romanian and English: A: Din Viaţa Satului/From the Life of the Village; B: Satul Meu/My Village; C: Verşi /The Deceased Farewell and Prayer for Forgiveness; D: Death-Wedding Laments; and E: Vrem Pace/We Want Peace. Professor Kligman had lived in Maramureş (right on Romania's border with Ukraine) among the native peoples on and off during her research. I fell in love with these verşi, as well as transcriptions of epic poetry from Alfred B. Lord's _The Singer of Tales_; "The Song of Baghdad" continues to be an especial favorite of mine.
I will follow up on your references when I have time; thank you for sharing them! In the publication I linked to, the introductory historical material is most interesting. Florence Randal Livesay was writing from Winnipeg, where such a huge part of the Ruthenian diaspora was/is located. These people from Austrian Galicia and Bukovina (much of which is in present-day Romania) had never been subject to imperial Russian rule.
Yes, Bukovina is sandwiched between the northernmost part of Romania and the southernmost part of Galicia, pre-1918. I would imagine that life in Austrian Galicia would have been very different from life in Imperial Russia. I'm glad you brought Bukovina up, because its southwestern border is next door to Maramureş in Transylvania. I noticed the introductory historical material as I was looking though the introduction. I'm saving that for tomorrow morning. Thanks again.
Very enlightening. It's difficult not to think that Putin has misread the likely reaction and fallout from an invasion — domestically and internationally — when the casualties and destruction mount. Perhaps he's starting to believe in the false realties he's adept at creating.
Excellent piece. I concur in my interest in your reaction to Biden and Macron.
Excellent essay. I'd be very interested to know your reaction to yesterday's remarks by Macron and President Biden.